Heinlein & Curtis LeMay ??

[a425couple]

From totally different reading direction, I was reading
about LeMay tonight.
I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).

Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
Lemay ever talked or corresponded?

According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war with
the Soviet Union, and he was absolutely certain of that. Therefore, he
believed that we should fight it sooner rather than later, when we had
a greater advantage in nuclear power, and it would result in fewer
casualties in the United States."

[Bill Patterson]

Post by a425couple
From totally different reading direction, I was reading
about LeMay tonight.
I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war with
the Soviet Union, and he was absolutely certain of that. Therefore, he
believed that we should fight it sooner rather than later, when we had
a greater advantage in nuclear power, and it would result in fewer
casualties in the United States."

They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
known well and worked with.

[MajorOz]

Post by Bill Patterson

Post by a425couple
From totally different reading direction, I was reading
about LeMay tonight.
I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war with
the Soviet Union, and he was absolutely certain of that. Therefore, he
believed that we should fight it sooner rather than later, when we had
a greater advantage in nuclear power, and it would result in fewer
casualties in the United States."

They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
known well and worked with.

My respect for both gentlemen, already sky high, has just increased at
least D of M.

cheers

oz, who recommends _Mission With LeMay_, by Curt, as told to McKinley
Cantor (er?).

[Chris Zakes]

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:46:34 -0800 (PST), an orbital mind-control

Post by MajorOz

Post by Bill Patterson

Post by a425couple
From totally different reading direction, I was reading
about LeMay tonight.
I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war with
the Soviet Union, and he was absolutely certain of that. Therefore, he
believed that we should fight it sooner rather than later, when we had
a greater advantage in nuclear power, and it would result in fewer
casualties in the United States."

They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
known well and worked with.

My respect for both gentlemen, already sky high, has just increased at
least D of M.
cheers
oz, who recommends _Mission With LeMay_, by Curt, as told to McKinley
Cantor (er?).

Unfortunately, the only thing *I* remember LeMay for was being George
Wallace's running mate in the 1968 presidential election. That tends
to color (as it were) my view of him.

-Chris Zakes
Texas

Creationists make it sound as though a "theory" is something you dreamt up after
being drunk all night.

-Isaac Asimov

[Gaeltach]

"Chris Zakes" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
: On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:46:34 -0800 (PST), an orbital mind-control
: laser caused MajorOz <***@centurytel.net> to write:
:
: >On Jan 5, 9:49 am, Bill Patterson <***@gmail.com> wrote:
: >> On Jan 4, 7:59 pm, "a425couple" <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
: >>
: >> > From totally different reading direction, I was reading
: >> > about LeMay tonight.
: >> > I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
: >> > speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
: >>
: >> > Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
: >> > Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
: >>
: >> > According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
: >> > on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
: >> > and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war
with
: >> > the Soviet Union, and he was absolutely certain of that. Therefore,
he
: >> > believed that we should fight it sooner rather than later, when we
had
: >> > a greater advantage in nuclear power, and it would result in fewer
: >> > casualties in the United States."
: >>
: >> They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
: >> and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
: >> known well and worked with.
: >
: >My respect for both gentlemen, already sky high, has just increased at
: >least D of M.
: >
: >cheers
: >
: >oz, who recommends _Mission With LeMay_, by Curt, as told to McKinley
: >Cantor (er?).
:
: Unfortunately, the only thing *I* remember LeMay for was being George
: Wallace's running mate in the 1968 presidential election. That tends
: to color (as it were) my view of him.

I don't warm to LeMay's views. Don't know what he was like as a person. I'm
glad he was wrong (so far) about that which he was absolutely certain.

[MajorOz]

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:46:34 -0800 (PST),  an orbital mind-control

Post by MajorOz

Post by Bill Patterson

Post by a425couple
From totally different reading direction, I was reading
about LeMay tonight.
I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war with
the Soviet Union, and he was absolutely certain of that. Therefore, he
believed that we should fight it sooner rather than later, when we had
a greater advantage in nuclear power, and it would result in fewer
casualties in the United States."

They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
known well and worked with.

My respect for both gentlemen, already sky high, has just increased at
least D of M.
cheers
oz, who recommends _Mission With LeMay_, by Curt, as told to McKinley
Cantor (er?).

Unfortunately, the only thing *I* remember LeMay for was being George
Wallace's running mate in the 1968 presidential election. That tends
to color (as it were) my view of him.

Yeah............It pretty much broke my heart when that happened. I
was very surprised when he did that. As much as it hurts to say it, I
think Curt was politically naive, and believed the
< whatever > party platform for its libertarian words and missed the
racist understory.

cheers

oz, wishing the military had men like him today

[Tian]

Post by Chris Zakes
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:46:34 -0800 (PST), an orbital mind-control

Post by MajorOz

Post by Bill Patterson

Post by a425couple
From totally different reading direction, I was reading
about LeMay tonight.
I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war with
the Soviet Union, and he was absolutely certain of that. Therefore, he
believed that we should fight it sooner rather than later, when we had
a greater advantage in nuclear power, and it would result in fewer
casualties in the United States."

They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
known well and worked with.

My respect for both gentlemen, already sky high, has just increased at
least D of M.
cheers
oz, who recommends _Mission With LeMay_, by Curt, as told to McKinley
Cantor (er?).

Unfortunately, the only thing *I* remember LeMay for was being George
Wallace's running mate in the 1968 presidential election. That tends
to color (as it were) my view of him.

That's where California got the American Independent Party. They were
kept on the ballot for years by clueless fools that registered with it
because "American Independent Party sounds good". Now they are more
strongly identified with the Constitution Party in other states, and
the recent registrants know what they are doing when they pick it.

[Michael Black]

Post by Chris Zakes
Unfortunately, the only thing *I* remember LeMay for was being George
Wallace's running mate in the 1968 presidential election. That tends
to color (as it were) my view of him.

He had an amateur radio license, and I wondered if that was a vector
for him knowing Heinlein. John W. Campbell certainly had a ham license,
as did some of the other authors of the golden age, so I wondered if
someone knew LeMay through that hobby, and might have introduced
him to Heinlein for other reasons.

He also helped get the US air force to switch to single sideband as
the mode for radio communcation, it being straight AM before that.
He had his own amateur radio station installed in his own airplane,
and used that to demonstrate the superiority of SSB.

Michael

[Nyssa]

Post by Michael Black

Post by Chris Zakes
Unfortunately, the only thing *I* remember LeMay for was being George
Wallace's running mate in the 1968 presidential election. That tends
to color (as it were) my view of him.

He had an amateur radio license, and I wondered if that was a vector
for him knowing Heinlein. John W. Campbell certainly had a ham license,
as did some of the other authors of the golden age, so I wondered if
someone knew LeMay through that hobby, and might have introduced
him to Heinlein for other reasons.
He also helped get the US air force to switch to single sideband as
the mode for radio communcation, it being straight AM before that.
He had his own amateur radio station installed in his own airplane,
and used that to demonstrate the superiority of SSB.
Michael

Curtis LeMay was K0GRL according to a framed
QSL poster I have from 1957.

My father got the QSL while he still had his
novice ticket (he upgraded to General soon
after this) and contacted an Air Force C-97
with special callsign K2AAA carrying LeMay
and a crew of 11 on a tour over the Atlantic
demonstrating the SSB equipment. The poster
includes a nice map of the route and an
explanation of the tour and equipment.

Nyssa, who now has her pop's old callsign

[a425couple]

"MajorOz" <***@centurytel.net> wrote in message...
-On Jan 5, 9:49 am, Bill Patterson <***@gmail.com> wrote:
-> On Jan 4, 7:59 pm, "a425couple" <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
-> > I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
-> > speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
->
-> > Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
-> > Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
->
-> > According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
-> > on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
-> > and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war
with
-> > the Soviet Union, and he was absolutely certain of that. Therefore, he
-> > believed that we should fight it sooner rather than later, when we had
-> > a greater advantage in nuclear power, and it would result in fewer
-> > casualties in the United States."
->
-> They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
-> and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
-> known well and worked with.

Thank you Bill.

- My respect for both gentlemen, already sky high, has
- just increased at least D of M.

Whoosh! (I'm not able to understand!)
Would you mind explaining to me what tha above "D of M" means?

- cheers
- oz, who recommends _Mission With LeMay_, by Curt, as
- told to McKinley Cantor (er?).

Mission with LeMay: my story By Curtis E. LeMay, MacKinlay Kantor,

Since that book was published in 1965, does it tell much
about the below ideas / statements ?

1961, LeMay was made the Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force.
In this post he clashed repeatedly with President John F. Kennedy and
his Secretary of Defence, Robert McNamara.
LeMay believed that nuclear war with the Soviet Union was inevitable.
According to the Washington Post (19th July, 1961) he told people
at a Georgetown dinner party that a nuclear war would break-out later
that year and that major cities such as Washington, New York,
Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Chicago and Detroit would be destroyed.

On 20th July, 1961, at a National Security Council meeting,
General Lyman Lemnitzer presented Kennedy with an official plan
for a surprise nuclear attack on the Soviet Union. LeMay was known
to be a strong supporter of this strategy. Kennedy was disgusted and
walked out of the meeting and later remarked to Secretary of State
Dean Rusk "and we call ourselves the human race."

LeMay argued that the United States should launch 5,000 missiles
on the Soviet Union. He was convinced this would destroy their 350
nuclear missiles and therefore prevent an attack on the United States.
JFK and McNamara rejected this strategy as immoral.
(Cuba crisis - JFK assasination - LBJ - LBJ Op Plan 48 - LBJ's election)
After the election LeMay was disappointed that Lyndon B. Johnson
did not order a sustained bombing campaign like the one he organized
against Germany and Japan during the Second World War. Once again
LeMay clashed with McNamara. According to Daniel Ellsberg if it had
not been for McNamara, no one would have stopped LeMay
"from firebombing or nuking Vietnam".

[Chris Zakes]

On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:57:42 -0800, an orbital mind-control laser

Post by a425couple
-> > I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
-> > speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
->
-> > Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
-> > Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
->
-> > According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
-> > on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
-> > and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war
with
-> > the Soviet Union, and he was absolutely certain of that. Therefore, he
-> > believed that we should fight it sooner rather than later, when we had
-> > a greater advantage in nuclear power, and it would result in fewer
-> > casualties in the United States."
->
-> They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
-> and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
-> known well and worked with.
Thank you Bill.
- My respect for both gentlemen, already sky high, has
- just increased at least D of M.
Whoosh! (I'm not able to understand!)
Would you mind explaining to me what the above "D of M" means?

Degreeof Magnitude, at a guess.

-Chris Zakes
Texas

Creationists make it sound as though a "theory" is something you dreamt up after
being drunk all night.

-Isaac Asimov

[MajorOz]

On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:57:42 -0800,  an orbital mind-control laser

Post by a425couple
-> > I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
-> > speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
->
-> > Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
-> > Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
->
-> > According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
-> > on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
-> > and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war
with
-> > the Soviet Union, and he was absolutely certain of that. Therefore, he
-> > believed that we should fight it sooner rather than later, when we had
-> > a greater advantage in nuclear power, and it would result in fewer
-> > casualties in the United States."
->
-> They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
-> and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
-> known well and worked with.
Thank you Bill.
- My respect for both gentlemen, already sky high, has
- just increased at least D of M.
Whoosh!  (I'm not able to understand!)
Would you mind explaining to me what the above  "D of M" means?

Degreeof Magnitude, at a guess.

hai

cheers

oz

[Tian]

Post by a425couple
LeMay argued that the United States should launch 5,000 missiles
on the Soviet Union. He was convinced this would destroy their 350
nuclear missiles and therefore prevent an attack on the United States.
JFK and McNamara rejected this strategy as immoral.
(Cuba crisis - JFK assasination - LBJ - LBJ Op Plan 48 - LBJ's election)
After the election LeMay was disappointed that Lyndon B. Johnson
did not order a sustained bombing campaign like the one he organized
against Germany and Japan during the Second World War. Once again
LeMay clashed with McNamara. According to Daniel Ellsberg if it had
not been for McNamara, no one would have stopped LeMay
"from firebombing or nuking Vietnam".

Something else to be grateful to McNamara for...

[MajorOz]

Post by a425couple
-> > I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
-> > speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
->
-> > Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
-> > Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
->
-> > According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
-> > on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
-> > and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war
with
-> > the Soviet Union, and he was absolutely certain of that. Therefore, he
-> > believed that we should fight it sooner rather than later, when we had
-> > a greater advantage in nuclear power, and it would result in fewer
-> > casualties in the United States."
->
-> They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
-> and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
-> known well and worked with.
Thank you Bill.
- My respect for both gentlemen, already sky high, has
- just increased at least D of M.
Whoosh!  (I'm not able to understand!)
Would you mind explaining to me what tha above  "D of M" means?
- cheers
- oz, who recommends _Mission With LeMay_, by Curt, as
- told to McKinley Cantor (er?).
Mission with LeMay: my story By Curtis E. LeMay, MacKinlay Kantor,
Since that book was published in 1965, does it tell much
about the below ideas / statements ?
1961, LeMay was made the Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force.
In this post he clashed repeatedly with President John F. Kennedy and
his Secretary of Defence, Robert McNamara.
LeMay believed that nuclear war with the Soviet Union was inevitable.
According to the Washington Post (19th July, 1961) ...

This attribution renders the following information dubious at best and
agenda-driven attack at its most ligical.

Post by a425couple
...he told people
at a Georgetown dinner party that a nuclear war would break-out later
that year and that major cities such as Washington, New York,
Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Chicago and Detroit would be destroyed.
On 20th July, 1961, at a National Security Council meeting,
General Lyman Lemnitzer presented Kennedy with an official plan
for a surprise nuclear attack on the Soviet Union. LeMay was known
to be a strong supporter of this strategy. Kennedy was disgusted and
walked out of the meeting and later remarked to Secretary of State
Dean Rusk "and we call ourselves the human race."
LeMay argued that the United States should launch 5,000 missiles
on the Soviet Union. He was convinced this would destroy their 350
nuclear missiles and therefore prevent an attack on the United States.
JFK and McNamara rejected this strategy as immoral.
(Cuba crisis - JFK assasination - LBJ - LBJ Op Plan 48 - LBJ's election)
After the election LeMay was disappointed that Lyndon B. Johnson
did not order a sustained bombing campaign like the one he organized
against Germany and Japan during the Second World War. Once again
LeMay clashed with McNamara. According to Daniel Ellsberg ...

...a thoroughly unbiased, objective source...

Post by a425couple
...if it had
not been for McNamara, no one would have stopped LeMay
"from firebombing or nuking Vietnam".

1. There are contingent plans for damn near everything anyone can
imagine, including, for example, if Canada should attack Alaska. If
it hadn't been for the contingent plan of H. Norman's (his thesis at
the national war college) about Iraq/Kuwait, we would have dithered in
the desert for years trying to figure out what to do.

2. LeMay thought from the beginning that it was unconscionable to ever
lose a rifleman on the ground, when a bomb from above would take out
the bad guys. Unlike the stereotype of the "macho flyboy -- top gun"
aviator the movies like to show, the reality is air power exists to
save GROUND lives in the winning of objectives. LeMay was one or the
concept's originators, and the grunts knew it.

3. "Bomb them into the stone age", a quote similar to "I cut down the
cherry tree" and "Play it again, Sam" was never specifically made,
only inferred by the listener. It did, however work whenever tried --
in Japan in 1944-5 in North Viet Nam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_II

THIS WAS EIGHT YEARS AND 35,000 AMERICAN DEATHS AFTER LEMAY FIRST
SUGGESTED IT.

Strange Mac is singularly responsible for more deaths than anyone
since WWII, and all military members serving during his tenure, who
are still alive, celebrated his recent death, joining the toast to his
everlasting burning in whatever hell he fears most.

cheers to all who survived Mac's madness

oz, been there, done that

[a425couple]

Post by a425couple
-> > I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
-> > speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
->
-> > Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
-> > Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
->
-> > According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
-> > on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
-> > and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war
->
-> They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
-> and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
-> known well and worked with.
- cheers
- oz, who recommends _Mission With LeMay_, by Curt, as
- told to McKinley Cantor (er?).
Mission with LeMay: my story By Curtis E. LeMay, MacKinlay Kantor,
Since that book was published in 1965, does it tell much
about the below ideas / statements ?
1961, LeMay was made the Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force.
In this post he clashed repeatedly with President John F. Kennedy and
his Secretary of Defence, Robert McNamara.
LeMay believed that nuclear war with the Soviet Union was inevitable.
According to the Washington Post (19th July, 1961) ... ---
LeMay clashed with McNamara. According to Daniel Ellsberg ...

- This attribution renders the following information dubious at
- best and agenda-driven attack at its most ligical.
(snip of several 'claims')
- ...a thoroughly unbiased, objective source...

I certainly have suspicion about whatever
Robert McNamara, and/or Daniel Ellsberg,
say.

(But, the basic fact that McNamara has made opposite
statements at various times about the same thing,
goes to kind'a prove, he is not always INCORRECT!)

- 1. There are contingent plans for damn near everything

Certainly, I am very aware of that, & have so posted.

-2. LeMay thought from the beginning that it was unconscionable to ever
-lose a rifleman on the ground, when a bomb from above would take out
-the bad guys.

OK

- 3. "Bomb them into the stone age", a quote similar to "I cut down the
- cherry tree" and "Play it again, Sam" was never specifically made, --

Yes.
Meanwhile, you might appreciate:
http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/review-of-lemay-the-life-and-wars-of-general-curtis-lemay-part-iii/
That is part 3, of the five. It does also say:
"This period is also the origin of that "bomb them back into
the Stone Age" comment, attributed to Lemay about attacking
North Vietnam. In 1963 Lemay was working with the author
McKinlay Kantor to write an autobiography, entitled Mission
with Lemay: My Story. Kantor spent many hours with Lemay.
He took notes and apparently took a number of liberties in his
writing. In short, Kantor simply made some things up.
According to Lemay, he read the galley proofs and never noticed
Kantor's version of Lemay saying he would bomb North Vietnam
"back into the Stone Age." Hence the made-up quote went to print
in a book under Lemay's name."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_II

Yes. I am aware of it. I was a grunt in the USMC at the
time and some of my work, was facilitating Linebacker II.

-cheers to all who survived Mac's madness
-oz, been there, done that

And cheers, clink, toast, glug back to you.
But now, where were we, ohh - does anyone have
a substantial doubt about the things said re: LeMay ?

[MajorOz]

Post by a425couple

Post by a425couple
-> > I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
-> > speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
->
-> > Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
-> > Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
->
-> > According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
-> > on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
-> > and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war
->
-> They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
-> and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
-> known well and worked with.
- cheers
- oz, who recommends _Mission With LeMay_, by Curt, as
- told to McKinley Cantor (er?).
Mission with LeMay: my story By Curtis E. LeMay, MacKinlay Kantor,
Since that book was published in 1965, does it tell much
about the below ideas / statements ?
1961, LeMay was made the Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force.
In this post he clashed repeatedly with President John F. Kennedy and
his Secretary of Defence, Robert McNamara.
LeMay believed that nuclear war with the Soviet Union was inevitable.
According to the Washington Post (19th July, 1961) ... ---
LeMay clashed with McNamara. According to Daniel Ellsberg ...

- This attribution renders the following information dubious at
- best and agenda-driven attack at its most ligical.
(snip of several 'claims')
- ...a thoroughly unbiased, objective source...
I certainly have suspicion about whatever
Robert McNamara, and/or Daniel Ellsberg,
say.
(But, the basic fact that McNamara has made opposite
statements at various times about the same thing,
goes to kind'a prove, he is not always INCORRECT!)

There are many ways to be wrong. He was experienced in many of
them.

There are few ways to be right. He had little (non-civilian)
experience there.

Post by a425couple
- 1.  There are contingent plans for damn near everything
Certainly, I am very aware of that, & have so posted.
-2. LeMay thought from the beginning that it was unconscionable to ever
-lose a rifleman on the ground, when a bomb from above would take out
-the bad guys.
OK
- 3.  "Bomb them into the stone age", a quote similar to "I cut down the
- cherry tree" and "Play it again, Sam" was never specifically made, --
Yes.
Meanwhile, you might appreciate:http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/review-of-lemay-the-life-and-wars-of-g...

Thank you. I have it bookmarked for detailed reading. Skimming looks
good.

Post by a425couple
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_II
Yes.  I am aware of it.  I was a grunt in the USMC at the
time and some of my work, was facilitating Linebacker II.

I was on a Minuteman wing staff, keeping maintenance folks in the
field 24/7, to maintain 99.9 ready rate while the third leg of the
Traid -- nuke 52's -- were diverted to what they should have done
eight years before.

Post by a425couple
-cheers to all who survived Mac's madness
-oz, been there, done that
And cheers, clink, toast, glug back to you.
But now, where were we, ohh - does anyone have
a substantial doubt about the things said re: LeMay ?

Nope......not about the facts.

cheers

oz

[Tian]

Post by MajorOz

Post by a425couple

Post by a425couple
-> > I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
-> > speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).
->
-> > Are there any records indicating Robert Heinlein and Curtis
-> > Lemay ever talked or corresponded?
->
-> > According to Robert McNamara (FWLIW) - Curtis LeMay's views
-> > on nuclear war. "LeMay's view was very simple. He thought the West,
-> > and the U.S. in particular, was going to have to fight a nuclear war
->
-> They were both on the National Air Power Council together for years,
-> and Heinlein lists Le May among top ranking military figures he has
-> known well and worked with.
- cheers
- oz, who recommends _Mission With LeMay_, by Curt, as
- told to McKinley Cantor (er?).
Mission with LeMay: my story By Curtis E. LeMay, MacKinlay Kantor,
Since that book was published in 1965, does it tell much
about the below ideas / statements ?
1961, LeMay was made the Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force.
In this post he clashed repeatedly with President John F. Kennedy and
his Secretary of Defence, Robert McNamara.
LeMay believed that nuclear war with the Soviet Union was inevitable.
According to the Washington Post (19th July, 1961) ... ---
LeMay clashed with McNamara. According to Daniel Ellsberg ...

- This attribution renders the following information dubious at
- best and agenda-driven attack at its most ligical.
(snip of several 'claims')
- ...a thoroughly unbiased, objective source...
I certainly have suspicion about whatever
Robert McNamara, and/or Daniel Ellsberg,
say.
(But, the basic fact that McNamara has made opposite
statements at various times about the same thing,
goes to kind'a prove, he is not always INCORRECT!)

There are many ways to be wrong. He was experienced in many of
them.
There are few ways to be right. He had little (non-civilian)
experience there.

Post by a425couple
- 1. There are contingent plans for damn near everything
Certainly, I am very aware of that, & have so posted.
-2. LeMay thought from the beginning that it was unconscionable to ever
-lose a rifleman on the ground, when a bomb from above would take out
-the bad guys.
OK
- 3. "Bomb them into the stone age", a quote similar to "I cut down the
- cherry tree" and "Play it again, Sam" was never specifically made, --
Yes.
Meanwhile, you might appreciate:http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/review-of-lemay-the-life-and-wars-of-g...

Thank you. I have it bookmarked for detailed reading. Skimming looks
good.

Post by a425couple
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_II
Yes. I am aware of it. I was a grunt in the USMC at the
time and some of my work, was facilitating Linebacker II.

Did you know an Air Force guy named John Reeder from Peoria, IL?
I think he was in Thailand doing targeting or something like that
in that time frame.

Post by MajorOz
I was on a Minuteman wing staff, keeping maintenance folks in the
field 24/7, to maintain 99.9 ready rate while the third leg of the
Traid -- nuke 52's -- were diverted to what they should have done
eight years before.

Post by a425couple
-cheers to all who survived Mac's madness
-oz, been there, done that
And cheers, clink, toast, glug back to you.
But now, where were we, ohh - does anyone have
a substantial doubt about the things said re: LeMay ?

Nope......not about the facts.
cheers
oz

[w***@gmail.com]

Post by a425couple
From totally different reading direction, I was reading
about LeMay tonight.
I was caused to remember Heinlein's very pessimistic
speech in Seattle at the Sci Fi convention (was that 1962??).

RAH was Guest of Honor at the 1961 World Science Fiction Convention in
Seattle over Labor Day weekend. It was 19th annual Worldon - there
being a slight hiatus during WW II.

He was previously GoH at the 2nd Worldcon - Denver, 1941. And in 1976
GoH at MidAmeriCon in Kansas City. It was the 34th Worldcon.

Worldcon details here: http://www.nesfa.org/data/LL/TheLongList.html

Michael Walsh